Glad to see this initiative. I am in favor of this proposal
I support this proposal. I see high gwei costs as a limiting factor for existing delegates, and especially for new delegates, this cost will be prohibitive to fully engage in their governance responsibilities. This proposal will allow all delegates an equal playing field to participate in governance.
I do have one concern regarding implementation. There is manual administration work that is required by each delegate to track their transactions and costs, in addition to a submission form. Is there any consideration of how we can reduce the high-engagement requirements (tracking and submitting reports) where it’s easier and simpler to track and report?
Also, in your proposal, you did not include the process of reimbursement from the Foundation. Are there best practices for reducing your gwei costs, how long will reimbursements take (paid weekly, etc.), and the resolution process if there is a discrepancy?
2 Likes
Thanks @coffee-crusher
I analyzed options that have been proposed in other projects such as Uniswap, among others, which have suggested the introduction of a gas rebate token or similar technical solutions. However, these suggestions pose an additional burden for the technical team. My reasoning is that when weighing the costs of technical implementation against manual processes, the latter may prove more favorable.
Also, based on the observed frequency of proposals over the past three months (averaging three per month), I believe we can continue with manual processing, provided that the DAO has the capacity.
Additionally, I understand that adherence to Ethereum for governance is not set in stone, leaving room to explore other solutions for governance in Layer 2s or off-chain avenues.
I propose operating on a monthly basis rather than any longer timeframe. Delegates may opt to submit their reports over a longer period if they choose, but ensuring that delegates can receive reimbursement on a monthly basis provides all delegates with the opportunity to consistently engage in governance.
This rule is also importnat in ensuring that pending reimbursements do not accumulate year after year.
“any gas fees not claimed over a 12 month period will be automatically forfeited.”
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ICYM the Delegates’ call earlier today,
For this gas fee rebates proposal, we discussed that considering its time-consuming nature. It could be beneficial to undertake these rebates every three months. Looking forwards to hearing the opinions of other delegates on this matter.
Additionally, Jana suggested that Tally is actively developing a gasless solution for governance, aiming to address the current challenges associated with gas fees. Therefore, not defining a specific timeframe will allow us to potentially shift towards this new alternative with Tally as these developments unfold.
3 Likes
I fully support this proposal.
Quarterly gas fee rebates seems a reasonable timeframe to compensate delegates participating in governance, but I agree Tally’s gasless solution can’t come any sooner.
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Thanks Jaf for the suggestion.
I also think that’s reasanoble, the vote on the test proposal cost me around $15 and that can accumulate.
However, I agree with @jf124 to do the rebate / offer claiming not less than every 3 or 6 months, since it’s not that much proposals, manual administration work (mentioned by @coffee-crusher) and the transaction cost for the reimbursement is also something to consider.
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I support this proposal. I do think it needs a few things cleared up first.
How are we funding this?
What budget would this come from, the administrative, protocol grants, or the Rari Chain Sequencer split?
Shouldn’t there be a cap on how much this project can spend? I would like to see the delegates be smart with their gas usage.
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Hello,
At first I also thought that delegates might abuse this tool and spam proposals.
But, taking into account the fact that these will be recognized delegates, it seems to me that this probability is low.
So, I want to support this proposal.
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Thank you everyone for your support to this proposal.
I think we can tackle some of @Firefly808 's questions in the upcoming Proposal review session.
Ideally, the funds should come from the existing budget designated for initiatives such as reimbursing delegators who took part in the delegation incentives program.
Additionally, implementing a cap is worth discussing. With recent spikes in gas prices over the past few weeks, imposing a cap might still result in elevated costs.
3 Likes
Sounds good to allocate a budget beforehand…
I also don’t think that spamming votes would be a thing, even if it were not recognized delegates, there’s not really something to win from a reimbursement.
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Hey @Jaf thank you for putting this together. It is indeed timely.
Following up from yesterday’s proposal review call, I am confident with going ahead with this.
Question: If we are following the three-month reimbursement model, when do we start tracking? Do we start from the moment cohort 2 went live (start of February)? Or right after this proposal passes Tally?
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Will add these to the topics to discuss with @addie
I believe is after the proposal passes. Will confirm.
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I fully support these proposals. Delegates are currently facing significant challenges due to the consistently high gas fees on the Ethereum network. For instance, during RRC-20 on Tally, we had to spend $50 just to cast a vote. This situation poses a real issue where some delegates may be unable to participate in voting, potentially leading to discrepancies between public expectations and actual outcomes.
Moreover, considering that gasless voting on Tally won’t be available anytime soon, prioritizing the resolution of this issue through Jaf’s proposal should be our immediate focus.
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Why not have the program run for the duration of cohort 2, backdate to the beginning of cohort 2 also
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That makes the most logical sense to me
2 Likes
Hi everyone,
My apologies for the delay in following up with this proposal.
After a brief discussion with Addie, here’s the proposed approach:
Taking into account the following factors:
- On average, we’ve seen 8 delegates voting in each proposal since the end of 2023.
- We’ve observed an average of ~3 proposals per month (fewer recently).
- The median transaction fee I’ve paid for reference is 0.0045 ETH.
- We aim to encourage delegate engagement in voting, particularly with the increased number of delegates from Cohort 2 of the LaunchPad Program.
Based on these:
The proposal suggests reimbursing up to 20 delegates over a 9-month period:
- 3 months retroactively (not all 20 delegatesfit here, but helps add padding to the funding request).
- 6 months prospectively (until Tally enables gasless transactions).
The reimbursement plan is based on the following parameters:
- 20 delegates involved
- An average of 3 proposals per month
- A transaction fee of 0.0045 ETH (using median tx fee as a reference point)
- A duration of 9 months
- This also covers fees for promoting proposals in Tally.
TOTAL = 20 * 3 * 0.0045 * 9 = 2.43 ETH (1,830 $RARI as of 04/16/2024)
Any unused funds will be returned to the DAO/Foundation.
I’m looking forward to your feedback and suggestions, and I’m ready to revise the proposal based on them before it proceeds to the voting stage.
3 Likes
This looks good. I support the reference price of .0045 ETH as well.
Two questions though:
- What will the claiming process look like?
- When did/does the nine-month period start?
Thank you @WinVerse
-
As discussed during the proposal review call the claiming process will be done through a form that will be made available after this proposal is approved.
It will be processed on a quarterly basis. -
I suggest we start from Q4/2023 (October 1st, 2023) with RRC-12 Ecosystem Growth Fund proposal. And until the end of Q2/2024 - unless Tally is ready before that.
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@Jaf Tally’s gasless voting is ready!
The DAO can define a set of parameters for wallets to qualify for gasless voting: e.g. a wallet holds or is delegated min of 100 veRARI is eligible for 10 gasless votes in the remainder of 2024.
As a note, gasless voting does not include submitting proposals. If proposal submission is to be free, there is a concern about spamming governance. Delegates can ask for proposal submission compensation as a fee when posting the proposal instead.
Here is a proposal created for the RARI DAO: Notion – The all-in-one workspace for your notes, tasks, wikis, and databases.
Per budget, the Foundation can cover gasless voting from 2024 operational budget:
- set $3,000 for gasless voting with Tally
- reimburse voting on proposals starting with RRC-12
For the purpose of retroactive reimbursement, I suggest establishing a claim period so that the unclaimed funds can be repurposed. Eg. claim window for 30 days from the proposal passing.
4 Likes
This is exciting news that Tally is ready to roll out gasless voting! I’m looking forward to a revised proposal before voting on Tally. The more that we can remove barriers and offer a seamless governance experience for more delegate members to participate, the more decentralized our governance will become.