Karma has been collaborating with the Tally and Rari teams on the implementation of an onchain delegate scoring oracle, which will be used to determine staking rewards. I wanted to share a quick update on our progress and the logic being used to assess delegate activity.
After discussions with the Rari and Tally teams, we decided to start with a simple and transparent approach: using onchain voting participation as the basis for determining whether a delegate is active.
Here’s how it works:
We look at all proposals that have ended in the past 90 days, across both Ethereum Mainnet and the Rari chain.
We calculate the percentage of those proposals that each delegate has voted on.
Delegates who have participated in at least 75% of those votes are considered active.
Scores are calculated daily and submitted to the oracle. We’ve been testing this in coordination with Scopelift and Tally and are ready to move to production as soon as the staking contracts are deployed.
Importantly, this scoring logic is modular and can be updated in the future based on DAO preferences.
Gm @mmurthy, thanks for the update and explanation. The dashboard looks really good.
The token holders will have to visit this page then, in order to delegate and receive staking rewards? And is there maybe some guidance for token holders, how they can migrate to RARI chain?
Hi @mmurthy , there is a proposal that I’ve submitted that uses our delegate Karma scores as one of the edibility factors to receive delegate incentive rewards.
However, when I checked on the Karma dashboard for all the RARI delegates, I noticed that there are missing Karma scoring rewards for Tally V2 (RARI chain) on the Karma dashboard, specifically for RRC-45.
So I did a spot check and I looked at four delegates Karma rewards, and I noticed that this missing RRC-45 was consistent across all four delegates. These delegate profiles are: @Firefly808 , @jarisjames , @Jaf and myself (@coffee-crusher - see wallet address: 0x6a39677F216D8Ea21BE5F95798Cd23d0c454E818)
In addition, when I looked into this more, I also noticed when I did a small sample with these three delegates below it showed “not yet voted” for votes already executed on Tally v1, even though each of these delegates did vote for this proposals on Tally, these included:
Can you please help with ensuring that all the executed Tally v1 and Tally v2 votes are being accounted for in the Karma scoring calculations, so the Karma scores are correct and current? Thanks!
The votes on Rari Chain are not being considered: We pushed a fix and now it’s being considered. The issue was, we integrated with contracts which were listed in Rari docs. However, new contracts were deployed and we weren’t made aware of those. Going forward, it shouldn’t be an issue.
Some votes on Tally V1 are not considered: We looked into this issue and looks like all the delegates you listed had voted with voting power of 0. We ignore votes with VP 0 because it’s super easy to get high score by simply spinning up wallet accounts and voting with no VP.
Hello @mmurthy , thank you so much for replying and for resolving point # 1.
Regarding the second point of 0 voting power, I guess I’m still confused.
Yes, it is correct that my wallet (0x6a39677F216D8Ea21BE5F95798Cd23d0c454E818) did not have any voting power on V1 for the last two votes (RRC-46 and RRC-47), so that does make sense that even though I voted for these two proposals, I had no veRARI to vote with, and therefore it showed “0” voting power and didn’t earn any Karma points.
However, when I look at the last executed proposal - RRC-47, I do see that all of these delegates did have voting power before RRC-47 was submitted on Tally, see below:
This is also the identical issue with @bitblondy and @Sixty for RRC-47 for their Tally V1 profile when compared to their Karma profile.
So, I guess I’m confused to why it shows that these three delegates (I just checked a small sample):
Did vote on RRC-47 (on Tally v1) AND
Each held or were delegated veRARI before RRC-47 was published AND
All three show in their Tally v1 profile that they have voting power % AND
Two of the three delegates (jarisjames and sixty) their Karma profiles show that they “did not vote” on RRC-47, when they did.
I just still feel that Karma is not picking up all votes when delegates are also voting on Tally v1. Can you please help me understand why it seems that it’s picking up votes (and counting towards the Karma score for some delegates but not all)? Tks for you help! (cc: @Anria )
The Tally API is bugged, doesn’t show current statistics, it still reflects that the delegate cohort 3 people still have voting power, which is incorrect.
You really have to lock some RARI (could be 5 RARI) so you get voting power and the system counts it as a vote. That way your DRS will go up once there is a new proposal up for voting on Ethereum. Trust me, i’ve tried!
If the proposals were now live on Rari Chain DAO, your vote would get counted since there you do have your 2000 delegated voting power. But on Ethereum, with 0 veRARI voting power, nothing gets counted and your DRS score will drop to a point its at 0%.
I actually did receive a delegation to my Tally v1 profile before the current Tally vote was published, and I’m hoping with my vote on this current proposal (and since I have a little more than 5 veRARI on Tally v1) that it will at least register and give me some Karma score - right now I have “0”.
And the Tally v2 issue is being fixed, per @mmurthy , however, if you note that it will not include retro rewards for votes completed (i.e. RRC-45), since mmmurthy only states that it’s for “voting going forward” from the fix they are completing.
Finally, it’s really frustrating that the Tally API bug issue is affecting our Karma scores, since this is right during our Staking campaign. I also don’t understand why it’s only seems to be affecting our Tally instance (if it’s caused by a Tally API bug), since at another DAO (OBOL) that is currently doing a Tally + staking campaign, they are not having this same problem. Thanks for you help!
We’re aware that these users have voting power (vP) now, but at the time they cast their votes, the weight used in the transaction was 0. Here are the transactions for RRC-47:
jarisjames → Etherscan link Vote weight = 0, and his choice was "support: 1" → which means For → Invalid vote for our system.
In her case, she voted with weight > 0, and her choice was "support: 2" → which means Abstain → Valid vote for our system. You can see we did consider this vote Karma link
Sixty → Etherscan link Vote weight = 0, and his choice was "support: 1" → which means For → Invalid vote for our system.
Thanks so much for the response and explanation, @mmurthy , that makes sense.
So if I understand you correctly, it appears that it’s not a set amount/minimum required for voting to count for the Karma score, but at least some (i.e. >0 veRARI) voting power held/delegated to, before a proposal is published on Tally v1 that will count for a Karma score, is that correct?
